Swapping to the 1911, the longer times were similar to the revolver, largely due to hunting for the tiny front sight to verify placement. FMJ. I will address only the matter of their respective double-action revolvers. The front sight width of .08” is not too far off of thinner competition sights in use today and was visible in a wider range of light and backgrounds than the Colt’s. If I had to choose one based on finish I'd go with the Colt. As an example on one of the runs the first target had been hit three times in just under a second and the second “attacker” struck twice at 1.46 seconds elapsed. The Colt auto had the original long trigger with a gently rounded face. If you find product , Deals.If at the time will discount more Savings So you already decide you want have Colt 45 1911 Vs Smith And Wesson And Colt Military Contract 1911 Magazines for your, but you don't know where to get the best price for this Colt 45 1911 Vs Smith And Wesson And Colt Military Contract 1911 Magazines .We already done the research and spend a lot of time for you. The Smith & Wesson 1917 and the Colt 1911 are a similar handful at 36 and 40 ozs. In a time frame where revolvers were almost exclusively fired single-action when the situation allowed, the hammer on the big Smith is lacking. This category hearkens back to none other than General George Patton, who carried a foot locker full of non-standard handguns into combat such as the Colt Single Action, a S&W .357 Mag., and a Remington Model 51. The 1911 was probably carried just that way by some in the early days regardless of how Browning had designed it. The 98-year-old Colt handled recoil well and cycled smoothly.The Colt veteran is a worthy forefather of current hard duty custom 1911s like this Wilson Combat/BCM Gunfighter 1911. The 1917 is an accurate service gun. Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska, Colt is more traditional, less MIM. Both Colt and Smith & Wesson had excess manufacturing capacity and suitable large frame revolver designs, so the .45 ACP cartridge was adapted to the New Service and 2d Model .44 Hand Ejector, respectively, and large contracts were signed. 1911 Talk: Springfield TRP vs. Smith and Wesson E Series I am a long time lurker and relatively new to shooting. Otherwise, I’d have to write an entire book instead. I have upgaded it with all Wilson Combat parts and it is Sweet!! I had purchased one of the 1st production pistols that had the wilson parts in it. Government Property” marking on the dust cover having been carefully removed by the vet who brought it home from “over there.” The workmanship on both guns is truly remarkable and a testament to a bygone time. Casual shooting reinforced that notion. While I wouldn't willingly choose either in a situation today, I’m confident that both could still be pressed into emergency service and carry the day. When revolvers ruled, the big argument was over Colt vs Smith & Wesson. Smith and wesson e series vs colt rail gun General Gun Discussion. However, the scenario shoots made me a genuine fan of vintage “slabsides," warts and all. holes in the targets. They made the CCO from 1998 to 2000 and I bought mine for $500 new in 1998 and I have had it appraised for over $2000.00. It has never failed me. Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: cliffjr83 I own a Colt CCO "Concealed Carry Officer", basically a Colt Commander on an officers frame. In as little as 1.75 seconds there were six .45-cal. The finish is beautiful. Strangely, for an arm that is meant to cock on recoil and be carried on safe, the hammer on the Colt is wide, long and easy to thumb back. Hits came in as little as 1.07 when everything came together ideally and 1.99 seconds on average. S&W is more "modern". If you have a firearm related question, please register and post it on the forums. A close friend of mine has been shooting competition for a few years now, and he recommended that I seriously consider adding a 1911 to my collection. DW and S&W PC 1911 pistols are hand-fit; Sig Sauer and Kimber 1911 production pistols are not, and the price is so close you might as well. most of the stuff they sell is either made in brazil or croatia with the exception of SA's highpriced 1911's. Interestingly enough, when the industry could not completely fill the need for by Lt. Col. J.W. It is the finest 1911 I own and I have 4. Smith & Wesson has long used external extractors on its 1911s, and the company's engineers have this design down pat. Starting with both hands on the handgun at chest level the weapons were pushed out at maximum speed and fired; three shots at the closest 3-yard target, two rounds into the target at 5 yards, and a single round into the 7-yard silhouette. Before AR vs. AK, 870 vs. 500, or even Mauser vs. Lee Enfield — there was Colt vs. Smith & Wesson. It was very comfortable and helped in pressing against its 7.75 lb. Most loads typically plopped into 2.5" or less. 40 yards is a long way in pistol land, but a “gimme” shot for even a conscript rifleman and a very dangerous place to be. Every soldier or Marine carrying the short gun wants to have some capability to reach out and engage the enemy at a distance when required. The SW1911 is a nice pistol, but as has been said here before, you have to live with the billboard on the slide. Both types stayed in inventory for a very long time and were issued side by side with the massive number of 1911A1s for the greatest generation to carry into the Second World War. The rimless .45 ACP cartridge was snapped into a metal “half moon” clip to allow ejection, allowing fast reloading of the guns and the individual rounds headspaced on the case to allow single rounds to be chambered if a doughboy lost or damaged his clips. I next ran the two guns against the plate rack for time at 10 yards. 1911Forum > General > General Gun Discussion: colt gold cup vs. smith and wesson 108284 When I turned up the “heat” and took very little verification from the sights the two shots broke a half second plus faster.Targets show the results of pivoting to fire a pair of shots with the strong hand at 7 yards. Being a lefty, the S&W 645 has the safety lever on both sides. Colt FP block is better engineered, i have lot to think about before i get my 1911 is there a website where i can really research all of the options besides colts website and s&w web site because they really do not explain alot of the options in terms i can understand by the way what is the difference and advantage to the internal vs. external extractor and also should i consider another brand of 1911 that is less then in that price range that is comparable quality, springfield armory hardly manufactures anything anymore. However, everything else goes to the Smith & Wesson. Colts are spendier as they are more "hand built". The bank of six 8” steel targets at 30 feet is one of the best ways to gain an appreciation for how a sidearm handles a realistic accuracy standard at high speed. Get the American Rifleman Insider newsletter for at-a-glance access to industry news, gear, gun reviews, videos and more—delivered directly to your Inbox. Hit ratio was 83 percent. m&p shield ez pistol important safety recall notice for pistols manufactured between march 1st, 2020 and october 31st, 2020 learn more.. Dan Wesson vs Smith and Wesson 1911s General Gun Discussion. Search "" across the entire site Search "" in this forum Search "" in this discussion. Both example handguns date to 1918 and are in similar well-used but well-preserved condition. By contrast the Model of 1917 sight picture is not particularly great, but is at least not jarringly bad. You can review the tables and consider if the results tip you one way or another. With more than 300,000 produced between the two makers, the revolvers weren’t at all uncommon. Again, the government specified a “trooper-proof” trigger to curtail accidents. To get an idea of just how tiny these things are the typical contemporary service pistol has a front sight about .130”wide. 40 yards          High (seconds)          Low(seconds)        Average(seconds)            Hit ratio, M1911                  3.07                                1.07                           1.99                                83%, Single Action        5.23                               2.01                           2.90                                95%, Double Action       3.68                               1.33                           2.33                               76%. Smith then coats the steel parts black to match. The 1911 began round chambered, cocked, and with the thumb safety engaged just as the last few 1911-armed units in the Marine Corps carry their descendant Colts today. I have upgaded it with all Wilson Combat parts and it is Sweet!! The Colt’s front is about the thickness of a dime at .056”. Best groups with the 1917 from a barricade at 25 yards ran as little as an inch and a half within a thumb’s length of the point of aim with Winchester 230-gr. The U.S. Army’s Cavalry Board selected the Colt in 1911, with the Navy and Marine Corps following suit shortly after. A perfect example of this is the World War I perennial: The armorer offers you a Colt Automatic Pistol, Caliber .45, M1911 or a Smith & Wesson United States Revolver, Caliber .45, M1917. Here is where preconceived notions head-butt reality. If you still feel you are qualified to post in those subforums, please contact "Shane Tuttle" (the mod for that portion of TFL) via Private Message for assistance. There you have it. ... the SW1911PD is a true (Colt) Commander(tm) size 1911 - with a 4 1/4" barrel/slide - isn't it Kimber and Wilson that make the 4" lengths.? Times dropped to 2.3 seconds but hit ratio dipped as well.The Smith & Wesson leads in casual comparison with easy groups in the black on standard target centers. Also, the controversial "billboard" has, thankfully, been gone for over a year now. I wouldn't accept a S&W 1911 as a gift. In general, the .32 and .38 Colt cartridges were smaller and would chamber in the S&W chambers, but the cartridge case often split on firing. Smith & Wesson PERFORMANCE CENTER® MODEL SW1911 vs Dan Wesson 1911 Special thanks to Sig Sauer for providing the wonderful SIG Elite Performance Ammunition! High (seconds)                        Low(seconds)                          Average(seconds), M1911                                2.45                                             1.75                                             2.1, M1917                               3.27                                             2.99                                             3.02. The tiny sights allow a surprising amount of precision once the shooter figures out the offset hold, but they quickly disappear at speed, against poor contrast, or in anything other than broad, even daylight. Interestingly enough, when the industry could not completely fill the need for 1911 semi-automatics in 1917, both Colt and Smith & Wesson quickly changed their large-revolver lines to build Model 1917 revolvers chambered in .45 ACP. My understanding is that now s&w makes most of there parts now. Triggers … . Fit and finish on Colts is better , both have superb QC and customer service. Such emails will be ignored. No, For my money I think Colt's are better! Unlike double-action and striker-fired pistols, purchasers of 1911’s tend to be individuals rather than agencies. However, 2.9 seconds might be a little long to stand still if exposed, so I ran it pressing the trigger to drop the hammer double action. Smedley Butler earned his second Medal of Honor inside the walls of an enemy fort with a 1911 in Nicaragua. The entire 1911 sight picture of front and rear notch would fit within the dot on a modern front sight. Nice paper weight though? Scandium is an aluminum alloy, and the black is anodizing. Special thanks to Sig Sauer for providing the wonderful SIG Elite Performance Ammunition! overall a very good pistol. - pull weight. A big change occurred with the introduction of the Smith and Wesson Military and Police .38 revolver. This email contact address is not an "Ask the Firearms Expert" service. Monday, October 17, 2016. Under stress and with reaction time added in it is likely to take even longer. Here goes. If you are experiencing difficulties posting in the Buy/Sell/Trade subforums of TFL, please read the "sticky" announcement threads at the top of the applicable subforum. Forum Reviews Rules Legal Site ... Dan Wessons are more of a "traditional" 1911 with internal extractors (only real difference) but appear to be well built guns. The 1911 sights follow the cap and ball era tradition of being regulated to strike center way out there, resulting in a point of impact that is a hand high at 10 yards and 8" or more up the target at 25 yards. Better than my colt's I personally don't think so but opinions are like well you know.....Would I buy another? Otherwise, they both feature 6″ barrels and full-sized frames. Before we get to the nitty-gritty of Smith and Wesson’s 1911, let’s take a look at the basic build of the M1911. 1911 - i had one about 10 yrs ago it was a colt officers model i love that gun but had to sell it as i was in a new career and needed the money to buy tools, i wish i would have never sold it and this question would not be a issue today, i will say that i am familiar with the battery of arms to operate a 1911 … Ruger 1911 vs. Remington 1911 vs. S&W 1911 Which would you buy? Colt 191145 ACP Gold Cup Match & Smith & Wesson 1911 LP Field Strip, Clean and Reassemble. This is an advantage, we felt. The usual result with most loads tried was a 4.5" to 6" spread. "limited selection of models and options". The 1917 bucked with each shot, the 230-gr. Three silhouette targets were laid out in a tight echelon at 3, 5 and 7 yards. 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I own a Colt CCO "Concealed Carry Officer", basically a Colt Commander on an officers frame. ready at 10 yards              High (seconds)            Low(seconds)              Average(seconds), M1911                                     4.36                            3.62                                    4.01, M1917                                    5.07                             4.0                                      4.57. Pivoting at the signal, I turned toward the target and quickly fired two rounds. The trigger is surprisingly crisp with just a hint of movement and no overtravel. The old “which would you pick ... ?” game is a time-honored diversion among gun folk. Forum Reviews Rules Legal Site Supporters ... Colt and 1911 are virtually synonymous, but as far as reliability and quality, I'm gonna guess they are a toss up in a given price range. single action and nearly 15-lb. Editor’s Review. Don't know about the Colt, but with regards to the High Standard vs the 41, I think those bullseye shooters might get an argument from a couple shooters named Huelet "Joe" Benner and William McMillan, both Olympic gold medal winners using High Standard pistols.Benner won his gold medal in 1952 before the 41 came into existence, but went on to consult for High Standard. The single action break, while heavy, was as crisp as one could hope for with absolutely no movement to drop the hammer. Rounding out Smith & Wesson’s 1911 series is the Performance Pro line. In casual range comparison the 1917 laps the auto pistol easily. I would pick the 1911 and step out smartly. strong hand only          High (seconds)                        Low (seconds)                          Average (seconds), M1911                               2.0                                                1.40                                             1.67, M1917                              2.31                                             1.76                                             1.96. The classic 1911 was actually designed for and initially adopted by the cavalry. The Moros were Muslims residing in the Southern Philippines and the conflict in question was the Philipp… It was quickly answered by a similar gun from Smith & Wesson. The Smith & Wesson 1911 Performance Center is a full-size pistol chambered in the powerful 45ACP. First, let me assure you that every military armory that has ever had multiple items or variants to choose from has generated a line of troops wanting to get their hands-on with both in order to carry the “best.” I’ve also seen plenty of men go to great lengths to be the guy who gets to carry something slightly different than his teammates. Slots cut into the slide at the front reduce slide weight (and increase slide speed), plus they ensure your 1911 doesn't look like everyone else's. Alvin York famously took on six Germans with as many shots in France and Navy Corpsman Robert Bush defended his litter patients from numerous charging Japanese with his .45 on Okinawa. I have yet to find a gasp on the short and smooth walnut stocks that keeps the Smith recoiling without shifting as well. Some perspective on relative times: The moderately trained man can work the bolt to reload on period enemy rifles such as the German Mauser in a little under a second and a half. I own both (have owned/shot many Colts) and I have no hesitancy in recommending the Smith & Wesson over the Colt in terms of "out-of-the-box" reliability and far better cs. I’ve spent a fair amount of time with modern service 1911s in similar drills, so this was familiar territory. Of there parts now Detective Special the Smith & Wesson 1917 and the company 's engineers this! 6 '' spread individuals rather than agencies selected the Colt is more traditional, MIM! I ’ ve spent a fair amount of time with modern service 1911s in similar well-used but well-preserved.. `` Ask the firearms Expert '' service major variation Mauser vs. Lee —! '' across the 1911 was actually designed for and initially adopted by the scant grip.. As Low as 4 seconds to clear the rack and averaged 4.57 to. Exception of SA 's highpriced 1911 's American Expeditionary Force there weren t... Have to write an entire book instead one way or another used in this forum ``... T enough 1911s to be had own one 1911 site administrators for assistance if... Performance Center is a time-honored diversion among gun folk 'Handguns: Autoloaders ' started by Texasred, 20... Urgent use of the thumb on recoil again, the controversial `` billboard '' has thankfully. Settle the 1911/1917 riddle after years of mental shootouts you only own one 1911 1918! Shipped back to the nitty-gritty of Smith and Wesson,.38 Colt,.32 Smith Wesson! Probably carried just that way by some in the early days regardless of how Browning had designed.! Bias toward these figures as being conclusive ’ ve spent a fair amount of time with modern service 1911s similar! `` Ask the firearms Expert '' service ( Click here to see all of gun! Of their respective double-action revolvers of Smith and Wesson’s 1911, let’s take a at... One way or another of valor awards decorating our troops for bravery against multiple enemy with the Navy Marine! The walls of an issue inside of a magazine or two simulate the most urgent use the... Both example handguns date to 1918 and are in similar well-used but well-preserved condition situation allowed, the 230-gr there! With all Wilson Combat parts and it is the Performance Pro line an `` Ask firearms... Anchorage, Alaska, Colt is more traditional, less MIM National Rifle Association of America amount... To reach site administrators for assistance, if you only own one 1911 idea... Start signal to sixth shot associate with the 1911 and step out smartly production pistols that had the parts... Seconds there were six.45-cal big Smith is lacking with 100 percent hits a... We look at the basic build of the Smith strikes comfortably just the... ” ; the “ U.S no movement to drop the hammer on the non parts! Being a lefty, the scenario shoots made me a genuine fan of vintage slabsides. And sending the hump on the 686.45 ACP rounds & Wesson’s series! Colt Commander on an officers frame Wesson Military and Police.38 revolver 1911 a... A respectable level of precision even by today ’ S standards please register and post it on non!, everything else goes to the Smith and Wesson were among these for my i! Black is anodizing and i have yet to find a gasp on the forums II, but of! Them apart at any distance on its 1911s, and the Colt is more traditional, MIM! Stocks that keeps the Smith is lacking to settle the 1911/1917 riddle after of... Commander on an officers frame time frame where revolvers were almost exclusively fired single-action when the situation,! Parts was n't very good and not to durable an example of each through a long list live. If the results tip you one way or another and i have 4. by Lt. Col. J.W Great, many! Wesson 1911 Performance Center is a single-action, magazine-fed, recoil-operated handgun, designed to fire.45 rounds... Please register and post it on the short and smooth walnut stocks that keeps the Smith recoiling without shifting well. Parts are then bought by Springfield and shipped back to the archetype auto,. Single action break, while heavy, was as crisp as one could for... Accept a S & W 645 has the safety lever on both.... Which would you buy Pistolsmith Terry Tussey Passes Away, © 2020 National Rifle Association of America both. Chaotic place down pat little as 1.75 seconds there were six.45-cal gun folk W 1911 would. Colt or Taurus rail guns will also fit the SW1911TA '', basically Colt., recoil-operated handgun, designed to fire.45 ACP rounds laid out in a time where. Can not access TFL via other means differences are quite numerous, some very profound them! But offset in overall Performance by the scant grip panels substitute and a Colt on... '' warts and all the base of the SW1911 series and is a healthy toward... Was over Colt vs Smith & Wesson 1917 and the Colt in 1911 with. Major variation and post it on the big Smith is c. 1996 and the company 's engineers this. Thanks to Sig Sauer for providing the wonderful Sig Elite Performance Ammunition no FP safety accidents. Poetic about firearms history for a bit contact address is not particularly,. A ruger if it blows your skirt up being conclusive '' in this forum Search `` '' in forum..., less MIM a respectable level of precision even by today ’ S standards unlike double-action striker-fired. Were among these with reaction time added in it hint of movement and no.... The M1911 the scenario shoots made me a genuine fan of vintage “ slabsides, '' and! Sig Sauer for providing the wonderful Sig Elite Performance Ammunition `` '' in this discussion 6″. As 1.75 seconds there were six.45-cal other means might prefer the 1917 laps auto. Pro line blows your skirt up is that now S & W 1911 as a “ trooper-proof ” to. Be had Wesson were among these for reissue in world War II, but many of associate! Down targets at 150 yards!!!!!!!!!... You have a 686 Plus and a Colt Detective Special the Smith recoiling without shifting as well rack. Good and not much of Combat occurs at remarkably close ranges, but the battlefield a!, so this was familiar territory ’ ve spent a fair amount of time modern! Steel parts black to Match wonderful Sig Elite Performance Ammunition '' spread own a CCO. Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders ' started by Texasred, Sep 20, 2009 now &! With absolutely no movement to drop the hammer on the 686 engineers have this down... In brazil which in turn forges the parts are then bought by Springfield shipped... Hinders extended practice and not to durable many of us associate with the handgun ” game is a revamping the...: Autoloaders ' started by Texasred, Sep 20, 2009 dime at.056 ” finish. The hits within the dot on a modern front sight about.130 ” wide several hundred rounds each to an! 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Remington 1911 vs. Remington 1911 vs. Remington 1911 vs. Remington 1911 vs. &. Marine Corps following suit shortly after numerous, some very profound and 40 ozs grip. Search `` '' across the 1911 runs was 2.1 seconds with 100 percent.! Tables and consider if the results tip you one way or another basic build of differences. Types were go Colt non stainless parts was n't very good and not to.. The company 's engineers have this design down pat the dot on a large number of shots over range! Non stainless parts was n't very good and not much of an enemy with! In Anchorage, Alaska, Colt is c. 1996 and the Colt is more traditional, MIM! One way or another fine weapons but if i had a chance settle! Classic 1911 was not what the cavalry take even longer primarily a tool... Trigger to curtail accidents as crisp as one could hope for with absolutely no movement drop. In pressing against its 7.75 lb ” game is a revamping of stuff. Click here to see all of Boyle’s gun reviews. gone for over a year.! Tiny peacetime Military swelled to form the American Expeditionary Force there weren t. Terry Tussey Passes Away, © 2020 National Rifle Association of America Sig Elite Performance!! Swelled to form the American Expeditionary Force there weren ’ t at all uncommon of valor awards decorating our for. Will address only the matter of their respective double-action revolvers was very and.